During the presentation Chairman, Secretary & the Members of 7th CPC had inter-acted with IRTSA delegates and sough clarifications for their doubts.
Presentation made through 46 slides was well received by 7th CPC. We have tried to reproduce it almost in same manner as happened. [click here to view IRTSA delegates met 7th CPC] There may be some minor deviation in the language, but spirit of discussion has been truly maintained. Presentation and interaction which lasted about an hour was very friendly and Hon’ble 7th CPC heard IRTSA with positive frame of mind and rapt attention.
1. Ques. (by Chairman 7th CPC ) You said that Senior Technicians are taking instructions from JEs, likewise Ch.OS from SSE and you also told that it is Office of Senior Section Engineer which controls all activities and all of them working within that – It appears that there is clear command line available, How it interferes in your Grade Pay?
Ans. i. Principle recommended by 6th CPC, which was also accepted by Govt, that, the senior post should be given with Higher Grade Pay need to be followed duly considering duties, responsibilities, accountabilities, etc.
ii. 5th CPC recommendations & Supreme Court Judgement supports this argument.
iii. Take an example: A senior technician welder working in Bogie Frame manufacturing section is responsible to the extent of welding done by him, where as a Technical Supervisor is responsible for the quality & quantity of output of not only that of welder but for entire section which may contain 20 to 30 Technicians besides others.
iv. More than that man, material, machine, other infrastructure, etc are controlled by Technical Supervisors, which posses’ higher responsibility & accountability than other posts.
v. Similar the case of certification of train, P.Way, Bridge, Power Distribution, Locos, etc.
vi. Categories like Ch.OS don’t have direct responsibility on performance & safety of Railways, whereas JE/SSE and their counterparts (CMT, Store) in all Technical Depts. born direct responsibility in core activities of Railways.
2. Ques. Is all 4 tier of Technicians work under your category in all areas?
Ans. Yes. In all areas 4 tier of Technicians, along with one Group ‘D’ category besides clerk, material / stores clerk, OS, Ch.OS work under our category.
3. Ques. Who writes ACRs for Ch.OS who are working in office of SSE?
Ans. Respective AMWs/AEs/AEEs etc.
4. Ques. Why can’t SSE write ACRs for Ch.OS who are working in their office?
Ans. SSEs who are in the same GP of Rs.4600 cannot write the ACRs for Ch.OS.
5. Ques. Who writes ACRs of Senior Technicians who work under JEs?
Ans. Senior Technicians’ ACR are written by SSEs even though Senior Technicians work under JEs.
6. Ques. What would be the reason for non application of common multiplication factor of 3.25 to SSE (S-13) scale by 5th CPC?
Ans. i. 5th CPC has applied common multiplication factor of 3.25 to all scales except to SSE (S-13) scale.
ii. This had been done merely to accommodate a new scale in Gazd scale (Rs.7500-12000) above S-13.
iii. SSE scale had been kept Rs.50 below than Rs.7500, ie.Rs.7450.
7. Ques. How the disadvantage of non-application 3.25 multiplication factor carried through to 6th CPC?
Ans. i. Initially 5th CPC recommended Rs.7000-11500 to SSE compressing it the newly introduced Gazetted scale.
ii. If 3.25 multiplication factor had been followed by 5th CPC, the scale might have been placed in 8000-12000 during 5th CPC and correspondingly Rs.5400 GP in 6th CPC.
iii. After the implementation of 5th CPC recommendations, based on demand from staff side when Govt. decided to modify the scale of SSE (S-13) instead of placing it in scale 8000-12000, it had been decided to modify minimum of the scale from Rs.7000 to Rs.7450 to keep it below newly created scale of Rs.7500-12000.
iv. Since corresponding increase of Rs.450 had not been done for maximum of scale, Span of the scale has been reduced to 18 years which was 20 years for all other scales.
v. The principle of 6th CPC to calculate the Grade Pay as 40% of maximum of the fifth pay commission scales put SSE scale in further disadvantageous position since maximum of scale was low because of 18 years span & non application of 3.25 multiplication factor.
8. Ques. You said that there were proposals sent to Fin. Ministry from Railway Ministry to upgrade the Grade Pay of SSE from Rs.4600 to Rs.4800 and that have been returned back without throwing proper light into it, can you produce copy of the proposals?
The proposals and communications between both the Ministries were very well available with Railway Board. (Later Secretary Pay Commission confirmed availability of Railway Board proposals sent to Fin. Ministry)
9. Ques. Is there any link available between the cadre of Group ‘C’ and ‘B’?
Ans. No. Promotional avenue from Technical Supervisors in Group ‘C’ to Group ‘B’ is restricted to the vacancies arising from 4200 Group ‘B’ posts, which may be around 0.5%.
10. Ques. As you said, Previous Pay Commissions recommended Group ‘B’ status to your scale DoPT also given their orders, it is only Rly Ministry not followed the classification, is it not Railways to take decision?
Ans. i. It is true that Railways have not implemented the classification of posts recommended by Pay Commissions & DoPT orders.
ii. We bring to your notice, submission made by DoPT before 5th CPC that even though there were some exemptions in following the classification rules, but the effort was to ensure that posts carrying similar functions were given the same classification.
iii. Similarly placed posts in departments like CPWD, Ordinance Factory, MES, Department of Telecom etc are all classified as Group ‘B’ Gazetted.
iv. State Governments which are following central pay commission pattern have also followed DoPT orders in classification of posts.
v. Railway Board also agreed on the need to increase the managerial posts (from the pool of senior supervisor) on functional justification, but didn’t implement.
vi. Hon’ble 7th CPC is requested to give specific instruction for Railways not to deviate from classification rules recommended for all Government Departments.
11. Ques. What are all the reasons for lack of promotion to your category?
Ans .i. Recruitment happens in the apex scale of Group ‘C’ in the Grade Pay of Rs.4600 with Graduate in Engineering qualification and Railways is the only dept which recruit Engineering Graduates in Group ‘C’.
ii. Available Group ‘B’ posts are very meagre to the extent of 4200 only.
iii. For example in Mechanical department of Integral Coach Factory sanctioned cadre strength of Group ‘B’ is only 16. Cadre strength of Technical Supervisors including Design in Mechanical Department (JE & SSE) is 1200.There are roughly 60 Engineering Graduate entrants are available many of them completed 20 years of service. There is no enough opportunity available because of meagre Group ‘B’.
iv. Confining Cadre Restructure within each Group.
v. Combined cadre structure for Group ‘A’, ‘B’ & ‘C’ is not available in Railways.
vi. Apex scale of SSE never received the benefit of CRC.
vii. Upgradation from Group ‘D’ to Group ‘C’ and Group ‘B’ to Group ‘A’ is being done in Railways, but no upgradation done from Group ‘C’ to Group ‘B’.
viii. Ratio of Group A & B Gazetted officers viz-a-viz Group C are the lowest on the Railways as compared to all other Departments.
ix. During previous 8 years number of Group-B employees in Central Govt Departments have increased by
36% even though employee strength reduced by 25%, But Railways never increased Group ‘B’ posts.
x. Gazetted posts were not increased in tune with increase of Railways performance including financial performance. Railways outlay was increased from Rs.60,600 crores during 10th plan to Rs.5.5 lakh crore during 12th plan Railways. Many of increased activities / work load are being managed by outsourcing, since there is negative growth in staff strength.
Source: http://www.irtsa.net/pdfdocs/Issues_raised_by_7th_CPC_during_their_meeting_with_IRTSA.pdf
Presentation made through 46 slides was well received by 7th CPC. We have tried to reproduce it almost in same manner as happened. [click here to view IRTSA delegates met 7th CPC] There may be some minor deviation in the language, but spirit of discussion has been truly maintained. Presentation and interaction which lasted about an hour was very friendly and Hon’ble 7th CPC heard IRTSA with positive frame of mind and rapt attention.
1. Ques. (by Chairman 7th CPC ) You said that Senior Technicians are taking instructions from JEs, likewise Ch.OS from SSE and you also told that it is Office of Senior Section Engineer which controls all activities and all of them working within that – It appears that there is clear command line available, How it interferes in your Grade Pay?
Ans. i. Principle recommended by 6th CPC, which was also accepted by Govt, that, the senior post should be given with Higher Grade Pay need to be followed duly considering duties, responsibilities, accountabilities, etc.
ii. 5th CPC recommendations & Supreme Court Judgement supports this argument.
iii. Take an example: A senior technician welder working in Bogie Frame manufacturing section is responsible to the extent of welding done by him, where as a Technical Supervisor is responsible for the quality & quantity of output of not only that of welder but for entire section which may contain 20 to 30 Technicians besides others.
iv. More than that man, material, machine, other infrastructure, etc are controlled by Technical Supervisors, which posses’ higher responsibility & accountability than other posts.
v. Similar the case of certification of train, P.Way, Bridge, Power Distribution, Locos, etc.
vi. Categories like Ch.OS don’t have direct responsibility on performance & safety of Railways, whereas JE/SSE and their counterparts (CMT, Store) in all Technical Depts. born direct responsibility in core activities of Railways.
2. Ques. Is all 4 tier of Technicians work under your category in all areas?
Ans. Yes. In all areas 4 tier of Technicians, along with one Group ‘D’ category besides clerk, material / stores clerk, OS, Ch.OS work under our category.
3. Ques. Who writes ACRs for Ch.OS who are working in office of SSE?
Ans. Respective AMWs/AEs/AEEs etc.
4. Ques. Why can’t SSE write ACRs for Ch.OS who are working in their office?
Ans. SSEs who are in the same GP of Rs.4600 cannot write the ACRs for Ch.OS.
5. Ques. Who writes ACRs of Senior Technicians who work under JEs?
Ans. Senior Technicians’ ACR are written by SSEs even though Senior Technicians work under JEs.
6. Ques. What would be the reason for non application of common multiplication factor of 3.25 to SSE (S-13) scale by 5th CPC?
Ans. i. 5th CPC has applied common multiplication factor of 3.25 to all scales except to SSE (S-13) scale.
ii. This had been done merely to accommodate a new scale in Gazd scale (Rs.7500-12000) above S-13.
iii. SSE scale had been kept Rs.50 below than Rs.7500, ie.Rs.7450.
7. Ques. How the disadvantage of non-application 3.25 multiplication factor carried through to 6th CPC?
Ans. i. Initially 5th CPC recommended Rs.7000-11500 to SSE compressing it the newly introduced Gazetted scale.
ii. If 3.25 multiplication factor had been followed by 5th CPC, the scale might have been placed in 8000-12000 during 5th CPC and correspondingly Rs.5400 GP in 6th CPC.
iii. After the implementation of 5th CPC recommendations, based on demand from staff side when Govt. decided to modify the scale of SSE (S-13) instead of placing it in scale 8000-12000, it had been decided to modify minimum of the scale from Rs.7000 to Rs.7450 to keep it below newly created scale of Rs.7500-12000.
iv. Since corresponding increase of Rs.450 had not been done for maximum of scale, Span of the scale has been reduced to 18 years which was 20 years for all other scales.
v. The principle of 6th CPC to calculate the Grade Pay as 40% of maximum of the fifth pay commission scales put SSE scale in further disadvantageous position since maximum of scale was low because of 18 years span & non application of 3.25 multiplication factor.
8. Ques. You said that there were proposals sent to Fin. Ministry from Railway Ministry to upgrade the Grade Pay of SSE from Rs.4600 to Rs.4800 and that have been returned back without throwing proper light into it, can you produce copy of the proposals?
The proposals and communications between both the Ministries were very well available with Railway Board. (Later Secretary Pay Commission confirmed availability of Railway Board proposals sent to Fin. Ministry)
9. Ques. Is there any link available between the cadre of Group ‘C’ and ‘B’?
Ans. No. Promotional avenue from Technical Supervisors in Group ‘C’ to Group ‘B’ is restricted to the vacancies arising from 4200 Group ‘B’ posts, which may be around 0.5%.
10. Ques. As you said, Previous Pay Commissions recommended Group ‘B’ status to your scale DoPT also given their orders, it is only Rly Ministry not followed the classification, is it not Railways to take decision?
Ans. i. It is true that Railways have not implemented the classification of posts recommended by Pay Commissions & DoPT orders.
ii. We bring to your notice, submission made by DoPT before 5th CPC that even though there were some exemptions in following the classification rules, but the effort was to ensure that posts carrying similar functions were given the same classification.
iii. Similarly placed posts in departments like CPWD, Ordinance Factory, MES, Department of Telecom etc are all classified as Group ‘B’ Gazetted.
iv. State Governments which are following central pay commission pattern have also followed DoPT orders in classification of posts.
v. Railway Board also agreed on the need to increase the managerial posts (from the pool of senior supervisor) on functional justification, but didn’t implement.
vi. Hon’ble 7th CPC is requested to give specific instruction for Railways not to deviate from classification rules recommended for all Government Departments.
11. Ques. What are all the reasons for lack of promotion to your category?
Ans .i. Recruitment happens in the apex scale of Group ‘C’ in the Grade Pay of Rs.4600 with Graduate in Engineering qualification and Railways is the only dept which recruit Engineering Graduates in Group ‘C’.
ii. Available Group ‘B’ posts are very meagre to the extent of 4200 only.
iii. For example in Mechanical department of Integral Coach Factory sanctioned cadre strength of Group ‘B’ is only 16. Cadre strength of Technical Supervisors including Design in Mechanical Department (JE & SSE) is 1200.There are roughly 60 Engineering Graduate entrants are available many of them completed 20 years of service. There is no enough opportunity available because of meagre Group ‘B’.
iv. Confining Cadre Restructure within each Group.
v. Combined cadre structure for Group ‘A’, ‘B’ & ‘C’ is not available in Railways.
vi. Apex scale of SSE never received the benefit of CRC.
vii. Upgradation from Group ‘D’ to Group ‘C’ and Group ‘B’ to Group ‘A’ is being done in Railways, but no upgradation done from Group ‘C’ to Group ‘B’.
viii. Ratio of Group A & B Gazetted officers viz-a-viz Group C are the lowest on the Railways as compared to all other Departments.
ix. During previous 8 years number of Group-B employees in Central Govt Departments have increased by
36% even though employee strength reduced by 25%, But Railways never increased Group ‘B’ posts.
x. Gazetted posts were not increased in tune with increase of Railways performance including financial performance. Railways outlay was increased from Rs.60,600 crores during 10th plan to Rs.5.5 lakh crore during 12th plan Railways. Many of increased activities / work load are being managed by outsourcing, since there is negative growth in staff strength.
Source: http://www.irtsa.net/pdfdocs/Issues_raised_by_7th_CPC_during_their_meeting_with_IRTSA.pdf
